<div dir="ltr">Hi All, <div><br></div><div>Seems reasonable to me.</div><div><br></div><div>Be Well</div><div>Anthony</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Matthew Turk <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:matthewturk@gmail.com" target="_blank">matthewturk@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Britton,<br>
<br>
I think this is really, really important, and I'm really happy with<br>
the YTEP as it stands.<br>
<br>
We've only gotten feedback from a few people. I think it's really<br>
important to get both positive and negative feedback from people on<br>
this -- even to the level of "geez, stop taking yourselves so<br>
seriously!" :) Do you think maybe an email to the yt-users mailing<br>
list would be productive? Or even directly writing to the people<br>
identified as "founding" members?<br>
<br>
-Matt<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Britton Smith <<a href="mailto:brittonsmith@gmail.com">brittonsmith@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi everyone,<br>
><br>
> I have just issued a pull request to the YTEP repository containing an<br>
> initial draft of yt team guidelines. I encourage everyone to take a look at<br>
> it and offer their feedback. In case you don't get the notification, the PR<br>
> can be viewed here:<br>
> <a href="https://bitbucket.org/yt_analysis/ytep/pull-request/40/ytep-1776-team-infrastructure/diff" target="_blank">https://bitbucket.org/yt_analysis/ytep/pull-request/40/ytep-1776-team-infrastructure/diff</a><br>
><br>
> Britton<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Britton Smith <<a href="mailto:brittonsmith@gmail.com">brittonsmith@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Sam,<br>
>><br>
>> This is an excellent point. I think it's important not to overburden a<br>
>> single person by being forever responsible for a large chunk of the code. I<br>
>> also think it's good to give as many as are willing an opportunity to share<br>
>> the role. Perhaps there is a team of people or subcommittee that is<br>
>> responsible for figuring out who their representative is. This can be<br>
>> ironed out.<br>
>><br>
>> I think we've gotten enough positive response to start thinking about a<br>
>> YTEP that lays it all out. I will start something this week, ask for<br>
>> feedback, and we can all develop this together.<br>
>><br>
>> In the mean time, if you would still like to chime in on this discussion,<br>
>> please do so.<br>
>> Thanks, everyone.<br>
>><br>
>> Britton<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Sam Skillman <<a href="mailto:samskillman@gmail.com">samskillman@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi all,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Britton -- I really like these ideas, and I like the member level being<br>
>>> defined as write access.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm a bit more concerned about the officers designation in terms of the<br>
>>> logistics of matching people with sections of the code. I could see<br>
>>> something working where on a 6-month basis, each of the main areas in yt are<br>
>>> assigned a lead. That lead isn't necessarily the person who has written the<br>
>>> most in the area, but rather a person who is willing to keep track of that<br>
>>> area of the codebase for the next 6 months, so that when it comes to doing<br>
>>> releases, they are the ones that know what has changed and where things are<br>
>>> not working well. Maybe that's too much of a process, but I also think we<br>
>>> should be wary of assigning potentially long-lasting labels to either people<br>
>>> or code. Semi-regular meetings for this set of people would be great.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Anyways, I'm definitely a +1 on a YTEP for all of this, and look forward<br>
>>> to hearing more!<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Sam<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 7:08 PM, B.W. Keller <<a href="mailto:kellerbw@mcmaster.ca">kellerbw@mcmaster.ca</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> +1, absolutely. Right now, yt has a really high bus factor. I think<br>
>>>> this would help that a lot.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Chris Malone <<a href="mailto:chris.m.malone@gmail.com">chris.m.malone@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> +1 as well on all suggestions<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> > On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Kenza Arraki <<a href="mailto:karraki@nmsu.edu">karraki@nmsu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > I wanted to put my strong +1 out there even though I don't respond<br>
>>>>> > often to dev emails. This sounds like a great direction for yt!<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > -Kenza<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > ---<br>
>>>>> > Kenza Arraki<br>
>>>>> > PhD candidate<br>
>>>>> > New Mexico State University<br>
>>>>> > Department of Astronomy<br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> ><br>
>>>>> > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Michael Zingale<br>
>>>>> > <<a href="mailto:michael.zingale@stonybrook.edu">michael.zingale@stonybrook.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> >> these all sound like good ideas to me. Some simply operating<br>
>>>>> >> procedures,<br>
>>>>> >> like "don't merge your own pull requests" might be good too.<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Britton Smith<br>
>>>>> >> <<a href="mailto:brittonsmith@gmail.com">brittonsmith@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> >> wrote:<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> I'm very in favor of putting some official procedures into a YTEP.<br>
>>>>> >>> Having<br>
>>>>> >>> a codified process may also help with conflict resolution as well.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> Apache does something with their projects where developers who make<br>
>>>>> >>> sustained contribution are made "members" after nomination by<br>
>>>>> >>> another member<br>
>>>>> >>> and are given write access to the main repo. It's a small thing,<br>
>>>>> >>> but if we<br>
>>>>> >>> perhaps have an official definition of "yt member" in a YTEP with a<br>
>>>>> >>> posted<br>
>>>>> >>> list of members, it can be something people can point to as a way<br>
>>>>> >>> of<br>
>>>>> >>> demonstrating that they've done significant work on the project.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> I think it might also be good to have officer-like positions where<br>
>>>>> >>> people<br>
>>>>> >>> are representatives for various areas of the code, such as data<br>
>>>>> >>> structures,<br>
>>>>> >>> visualization, analysis_modules, etc. and to have semi-regular<br>
>>>>> >>> meeting of<br>
>>>>> >>> these people. This may be as much leadership as we need for now,<br>
>>>>> >>> just a<br>
>>>>> >>> group that meets on a schedule to make sure everyone's on the same<br>
>>>>> >>> page with<br>
>>>>> >>> releases and major development efforts.<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> What do people think of something like this?<br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Matthew Turk<br>
>>>>> >>> <<a href="mailto:matthewturk@gmail.com">matthewturk@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> >>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> Hi Britton,<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> Thanks for bringing this up -- it's a tough topic, but also I<br>
>>>>> >>>> think<br>
>>>>> >>>> really important. At the WSSSPE conference last year, a paper was<br>
>>>>> >>>> submitted talking about the Apache model:<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> <a href="http://figshare.com/articles/Sustainable_Cyberinfrastructure_Software_Through_Open_Governance/790761" target="_blank">http://figshare.com/articles/Sustainable_Cyberinfrastructure_Software_Through_Open_Governance/790761</a><br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> which talks about a lot of related topics. Apache does some<br>
>>>>> >>>> interesting things. They use the word "meritocracy" which I am<br>
>>>>> >>>> rather<br>
>>>>> >>>> -1 on using (see, for instance,<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> <a href="http://www.ashedryden.com/blog/the-ethics-of-unpaid-labor-and-the-oss-community" target="_blank">http://www.ashedryden.com/blog/the-ethics-of-unpaid-labor-and-the-oss-community</a><br>
>>>>> >>>> ) but I do think there is something to be said for a large part of<br>
>>>>> >>>> their methods of organization.<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> Like you, I think we are overdue. I would like to point out that,<br>
>>>>> >>>> for<br>
>>>>> >>>> all intents and purposes, you are *already* the ombudsman for the<br>
>>>>> >>>> yt<br>
>>>>> >>>> community. I don't think you're proposing we have a committee<br>
>>>>> >>>> that<br>
>>>>> >>>> bosses everyone around, but rather one that enables a larger<br>
>>>>> >>>> number of<br>
>>>>> >>>> people to have a say, particularly because yt has become embedded<br>
>>>>> >>>> in<br>
>>>>> >>>> many of our scientific workflows and it touches a lot of research<br>
>>>>> >>>> activities now. I like the idea of members. I like the idea of a<br>
>>>>> >>>> project management committee, but it's not clear to me how that<br>
>>>>> >>>> would<br>
>>>>> >>>> work, or which decisions we have made recently that they would<br>
>>>>> >>>> weigh<br>
>>>>> >>>> in on. I also really like the idea of having "code liasons" to<br>
>>>>> >>>> different data platforms and/or communities, and the idea of<br>
>>>>> >>>> having<br>
>>>>> >>>> people who are responsible for many different areas of the code<br>
>>>>> >>>> and<br>
>>>>> >>>> codifying that in some way is quite attractive to me.<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> For what it's worth, a few weeks ago I gave a presentation on my<br>
>>>>> >>>> "vision" for the future of yt (<a href="http://goo.gl/JKt6MA" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/JKt6MA</a>). The thing<br>
>>>>> >>>> is,<br>
>>>>> >>>> while I gave this presentation, it's just *my* vision -- it is not<br>
>>>>> >>>> necessarily anyone else's vision. And I think it's time we have<br>
>>>>> >>>> some<br>
>>>>> >>>> method of taking into account a diverse set of opinions for what<br>
>>>>> >>>> we as<br>
>>>>> >>>> a community can emphasize, how we resolve conflicts, and so on and<br>
>>>>> >>>> so<br>
>>>>> >>>> forth.<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> Again, thanks for bringing this up. We need to have this<br>
>>>>> >>>> conversation.<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> -Matt<br>
>>>>> >>>><br>
>>>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Britton Smith<br>
>>>>> >>>> <<a href="mailto:brittonsmith@gmail.com">brittonsmith@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> >>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> >>>>> Greeting yt developers,<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> First, I want to congratulate everyone here on the successful<br>
>>>>> >>>>> release<br>
>>>>> >>>>> of yt-3.0. This was a massive effort on the part of so many and<br>
>>>>> >>>>> a<br>
>>>>> >>>>> true testament to the strength of this team.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> At the time of writing this, there are 78 members of the yt-dev<br>
>>>>> >>>>> mailing list. As someone who does most of their work in very<br>
>>>>> >>>>> small<br>
>>>>> >>>>> collaborations, this amazes me and make me very proud. In case<br>
>>>>> >>>>> you're<br>
>>>>> >>>>> wondering, the yt-users list has 268 members.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> As a project, yt has a significant amount of infrastructure: code<br>
>>>>> >>>>> review with pull requests, issue tracking, automated testing,<br>
>>>>> >>>>> emails<br>
>>>>> >>>>> lists, an IRC channel, enhancement proposals, workshops. All of<br>
>>>>> >>>>> this<br>
>>>>> >>>>> is evidence of our legitimacy as a Real Thing. However, one big<br>
>>>>> >>>>> missing piece is a system of governance. I don't know exactly<br>
>>>>> >>>>> what<br>
>>>>> >>>>> this means, but I have some ideas, which I will share below.<br>
>>>>> >>>>> What I<br>
>>>>> >>>>> want to do right now is to start a discussion that will,<br>
>>>>> >>>>> hopefully,<br>
>>>>> >>>>> include as many people as possible on this list.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> For me, governance means (roughly) the following:<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> - a set of procedures in writing for how various things are to be<br>
>>>>> >>>>> done, such as acceptance of pull requests, releases, designating<br>
>>>>> >>>>> developers as core contributors, etc.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> - a governing body to make decisions and help guide the project.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> This accomplishes a number of things, which as a project I think<br>
>>>>> >>>>> we<br>
>>>>> >>>>> need, such as:<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> - overall stability of the project.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> - providing a system for conflict resolution.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> - maintaining the spirit of yt as a team effort.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> - providing a way for active contributors to get credit for their<br>
>>>>> >>>>> contribution in the form of official recognition.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> So, these are my initial thoughts, but I really think this<br>
>>>>> >>>>> deserves a<br>
>>>>> >>>>> thorough discussion with as many people participating as<br>
>>>>> >>>>> possible.<br>
>>>>> >>>>> Please, think about what governance means to you, whether we need<br>
>>>>> >>>>> it,<br>
>>>>> >>>>> what it should be, and what we might get out of it, and share<br>
>>>>> >>>>> your<br>
>>>>> >>>>> thoughts over the next few days. I look forward to this<br>
>>>>> >>>>> discussion.<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> Britton<br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>><br>
>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> >>>>> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >>>>> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> >>>> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> >>>> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >>>> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>><br>
>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> >>> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> >>> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >>> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> --<br>
>>>>> >> Michael Zingale<br>
>>>>> >> Associate Professor<br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> Dept. of Physics & Astronomy • Stony Brook University • Stony Brook,<br>
>>>>> >> NY<br>
>>>>> >> 11794-3800<br>
>>>>> >> phone: <a href="tel:631-632-8225" value="+16316328225">631-632-8225</a><br>
>>>>> >> e-mail: <a href="mailto:Michael.Zingale@stonybrook.edu">Michael.Zingale@stonybrook.edu</a><br>
>>>>> >> web: <a href="http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/mzingale" target="_blank">http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/mzingale</a><br>
>>>>> >><br>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> >> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> >> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> >> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> > yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> > <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> > <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> yt-dev mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org">yt-dev@lists.spacepope.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org" target="_blank">http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> yt-dev mailing list<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>