[yt-dev] Merging the unit refactor

Britton Smith brittonsmith at gmail.com
Fri Feb 7 13:42:09 PST 2014 

I like Cameron's idea a ton.  We do have to draw a line somewhere on these
docs or else they will never get done.  I really like the idea of allowing
changes into the development (here yt-3.0) branch with minimal/some docs,
but an absolute hard deadline when it comes to changes getting into stable
releases.  I also think we need to establish some sort of guideline for
minimally acceptable documentation otherwise we risk losing the bridge to
the rest of the developers.

Britton


On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Cameron Hummels <chummels at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I'm +1 on this--no strings attached.  I totally agree with what Matt has
> said above, as I do see the need to get unit refactor into the main
> development line, since much of the current development has taken place
> there as of late.
>
> I think Matt's suggestions for blockers on the docs are spot-on, and I
> applaud the efforts that he has already made to get them moving.  I
> understand not having a full docs refactor immediately, in a desire to get
> the code available to the userbase.  I'm very happy to review stuff, but
> I'm afraid I cannot be much help in authorship given that I have little
> experience with the new refactor.
>
> The only small thing that I might suggest is to have some sort of
> timeline, even if it is a loose one, on when we can complete the narrative
> docs, the SPH smoothing docs, and bringing the docs fully up to speed with
> 3.0.  I realize this may take some time, but I think it is important to not
> get into a deficit on this, as it will likely just grow with time (I say
> this as an experienced procrastinator).  Maybe before 3.0 is officially
> released to the community as a stable version?  Maybe shortly after?  I'd
> be interested in other's thoughts on this and I'm flexible on this.
>
> Thanks, Matt.
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Matthew Turk <matthewturk at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Matthew Turk <matthewturk at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> One issue with recommending that people stay on the current yt-3.0 tip
>> >>> is that there are a number of bugs (the most serious are related to
>> >>> field detection), that are fixed in unitrefactor.
>> >>>
>> >>> The API changes in 3.0 we've been planning for a long time (see the
>> >>> YTEP repo) were always going to be a bit painful and I think we're
>> >>> finally at the point where that starts to become a concern.
>> >>>
>> >>> So long as there is a big docs push on a relatively short timescale,
>> >>> I'd be +1 on the approach Matt suggests.
>> >>>
>> >>> Matt, where is the documentation you are Britton have started work on?
>> >>>  I don't see it in MatthewTurk/yt.
>> >>
>> >> MatthewTurk/yt-units at 30docs
>> >>
>> >
>> > What about the stumbling blocks document?
>>
>> doc/source/yt3differences.rst
>>
>> Just added a few more items to it.
>>
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 11:21 AM, John Zuhone <jzuhone at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>> I guess I see both sides of this. Part of me wants to say that we
>> >>>> should mark a "stable-ish" alpha/beta/wherever we are version of 3.0
>> >>>> right before the unit refactoring, and encourage people who use 3.0
>> >>>> already to stop there for now. I suppose the objection to this is
>> what
>> >>>> happens when bugs in that version are found, but we also have to
>> think
>> >>>> about fixing potentially any bug now in light of the new units
>> >>>> functionality. I'm not myself going to be doing any development from
>> >>>> this point that doesn't assume the new field system and units, so I
>> >>>> don't have to change it later.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> However, I am not particularly religious on what direction we should
>> >>>> go with this, so count me as a solid 0.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Matthew Turk <matthewturk at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>> Hi everyone,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I've done a lot of thinking and talking with people about the idea
>> of
>> >>>>> merging the units stuff into the mainline yt 3.0 branch.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There are clear advantages to doing this: people who want to use SPH
>> >>>>> smoothing would be able to get it from the primary repository, PRs
>> >>>>> could be done through that repository, and the access to new things
>> >>>>> would be considerably easier.  More public development and review
>> >>>>> could happen; while the development already *is* public, it's out of
>> >>>>> view in my fork of yt.  This is not productive.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But the development of yt is not the point of yt.  Using yt to
>> enable
>> >>>>> scientific discovery is the point of yt.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In many ways, the units refactor will enable more scientific
>> >>>>> discovery.  But it's not ready.  There are people using yt-3.0
>> >>>>> *already* (prime example: http://nickolas1.com/d3test2/ ) to do
>> really
>> >>>>> cool science in ways that they can't with 2.x.  And they're doing
>> this
>> >>>>> with a yt that *mostly* works like the 2.x branch, with the same
>> field
>> >>>>> names and units and all of that, so the docs *mostly* apply.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The units refactor, if merged in, would pull the rug *completely*
>> out
>> >>>>> from under them.  And there's no safety net.  There's a web of YTEPs
>> >>>>> and PR comments and notebooks posted to mailing lists, but there's
>> no
>> >>>>> place they can go and see, "Hey, this worked before, why isn't it
>> >>>>> now?"  And that's not okay.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I've long put off writing documentation, and honestly, I could come
>> up
>> >>>>> with lots more reasons to put it off.  But I started on Wednesday
>> >>>>> actually writing things down in earnest, and I think that needs to
>> be
>> >>>>> the next big push, which I am committed to doing.  Yeah, it's not
>> that
>> >>>>> fun always.  Especially since things *are* still changing.  But it's
>> >>>>> not fair -- and it is certainly not in the spirit of *extreme
>> empathy*
>> >>>>> -- to just change things.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But I also want new development to continue.  And so I want a
>> balance
>> >>>>> to be struck.  I'd like to enumerate the items that are necessary
>> for
>> >>>>> documentation so that we can merge it in.  I think these are as
>> >>>>> follows:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  * All notebooks should be ported to the 3.0 docs and unit-refactor
>> style
>> >>>>>  * API documentation has to be able to be compiled
>> >>>>>  * At a *bare* minimum, a list of stumbling blocks has to be
>> included
>> >>>>> for moving to 3.0.  Britton and I have started on this and made very
>> >>>>> good progress.
>> >>>>>  * We need a bookmark or tag to be included in the repo
>> *pre*-refactor.
>> >>>>>  * Cookbook recipes must work (I think they mostly do now)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Things I don't think we need to do before merging:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  * Completely update 100% of the narrative docs
>> >>>>>  * Document how to add smoothing fields, as I believe this API is
>> in flux
>> >>>>>  * Describe the underlying methods in great, extensive detail for
>> the
>> >>>>> new frontends
>> >>>>>  * A full, complete review of the docs like we did in advance of 2.6
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As a thought, why don't we treat documentation the way we treat
>> code?
>> >>>>> Within the project, it seems we're comfortable committing and
>> >>>>> submitting work-in-progress code, but not docs.  In the past,
>> perhaps
>> >>>>> this was because the PRs and repos were separate.  They aren't
>> >>>>> anymore.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> How does this proposal for the merge sound?  Please render an
>> opinion,
>> >>>>> as I'd like to have this settled before the early part of next week.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks everyone,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Matt
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> yt-dev mailing list
>> >>>>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
>> >>>>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> John ZuHone
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Postdoctoral Researcher
>> >>>> NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
>> >>>>
>> >>>> jzuhone at gmail.com
>> >>>> john.zuhone at nasa.gov
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Cameron Hummels
> Postdoctoral Researcher
> Steward Observatory
> University of Arizona
> http://chummels.org
>
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