[yt-dev] let's talk about Governance

Tue Aug 26 14:16:09 PDT 2014

Hi All,

Seems reasonable to me.

Be Well
Anthony

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Matthew Turk <matthewturk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Britton,
>
> I think this is really, really important, and I'm really happy with
> the YTEP as it stands.
>
> We've only gotten feedback from a few people.  I think it's really
> important to get both positive and negative feedback from people on
> this -- even to the level of "geez, stop taking yourselves so
> seriously!" :)  Do you think maybe an email to the yt-users mailing
> list would be productive?  Or even directly writing to the people
> identified as "founding" members?
>
> -Matt
>
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Britton Smith <brittonsmith at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I have just issued a pull request to the YTEP repository containing an
> > initial draft of yt team guidelines.  I encourage everyone to take a
> look at
> > it and offer their feedback.  In case you don't get the notification,
> the PR
> > can be viewed here:
> >
> https://bitbucket.org/yt_analysis/ytep/pull-request/40/ytep-1776-team-infrastructure/diff
> >
> > Britton
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Britton Smith <brittonsmith at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Sam,
> >>
> >> This is an excellent point.  I think it's important not to overburden a
> >> single person by being forever responsible for a large chunk of the
> code.  I
> >> also think it's good to give as many as are willing an opportunity to
> share
> >> the role.  Perhaps there is a team of people or subcommittee that is
> >> responsible for figuring out who their representative is.  This can be
> >> ironed out.
> >>
> >> I think we've gotten enough positive response to start thinking about a
> >> YTEP that lays it all out.  I will start something this week, ask for
> >> feedback, and we can all develop this together.
> >>
> >> In the mean time, if you would still like to chime in on this
> discussion,
> >> please do so.
> >> Thanks, everyone.
> >>
> >> Britton
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Sam Skillman <samskillman at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Britton -- I really like these ideas, and I like the member level being
> >>> defined as write access.
> >>>
> >>> I'm a bit more concerned about the officers designation in terms of the
> >>> logistics of matching people with sections of the code. I could see
> >>> something working where on a 6-month basis, each of the main areas in
> yt are
> >>> assigned a lead.  That lead isn't necessarily the person who has
> written the
> >>> most in the area, but rather a person who is willing to keep track of
> that
> >>> area of the codebase for the next 6 months, so that when it comes to
> doing
> >>> releases, they are the ones that know what has changed and where
> things are
> >>> not working well.  Maybe that's too much of a process, but I also
> think we
> >>> should be wary of assigning potentially long-lasting labels to either
> people
> >>> or code. Semi-regular meetings for this set of people would be great.
> >>>
> >>> Anyways, I'm definitely a +1 on a YTEP for all of this, and look
> forward
> >>> to hearing more!
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Sam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 7:08 PM, B.W. Keller <kellerbw at mcmaster.ca>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> +1, absolutely.  Right now, yt has a really high bus factor.  I think
> >>>> this would help that a lot.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Chris Malone <
> chris.m.malone at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1 as well on all suggestions
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > On Aug 15, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Kenza Arraki <karraki at nmsu.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I wanted to put my strong +1 out there even though I don't respond
> >>>>> > often to dev emails. This sounds like a great direction for yt!
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > -Kenza
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ---
> >>>>> > Kenza Arraki
> >>>>> > PhD candidate
> >>>>> > New Mexico State University
> >>>>> > Department of Astronomy
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Michael Zingale
> >>>>> > <michael.zingale at stonybrook.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> >> these all sound like good ideas to me.  Some simply operating
> >>>>> >> procedures,
> >>>>> >> like "don't merge your own pull requests" might be good too.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> On Fri, Aug 15, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Britton Smith
> >>>>> >> <brittonsmith at gmail.com>
> >>>>> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> I'm very in favor of putting some official procedures into a
> YTEP.
> >>>>> >>> Having
> >>>>> >>> a codified process may also help with conflict resolution as
> well.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> Apache does something with their projects where developers who
> make
> >>>>> >>> sustained contribution are made "members" after nomination by
> >>>>> >>> another member
> >>>>> >>> and are given write access to the main repo.  It's a small thing,
> >>>>> >>> but if we
> >>>>> >>> perhaps have an official definition of "yt member" in a YTEP
> with a
> >>>>> >>> posted
> >>>>> >>> list of members, it can be something people can point to as a way
> >>>>> >>> of
> >>>>> >>> demonstrating that they've done significant work on the project.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> I think it might also be good to have officer-like positions
> where
> >>>>> >>> people
> >>>>> >>> are representatives for various areas of the code, such as data
> >>>>> >>> structures,
> >>>>> >>> visualization, analysis_modules, etc. and to have semi-regular
> >>>>> >>> meeting of
> >>>>> >>> these people.  This may be as much leadership as we need for now,
> >>>>> >>> just a
> >>>>> >>> group that meets on a schedule to make sure everyone's on the
> same
> >>>>> >>> page with
> >>>>> >>> releases and major development efforts.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> What do people think of something like this?
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Matthew Turk
> >>>>> >>> <matthewturk at gmail.com>
> >>>>> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> Hi Britton,
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> Thanks for bringing this up -- it's a tough topic, but also I
> >>>>> >>>> think
> >>>>> >>>> really important.  At the WSSSPE conference last year, a paper
> was
> >>>>> >>>> submitted talking about the Apache model:
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>
> http://figshare.com/articles/Sustainable_Cyberinfrastructure_Software_Through_Open_Governance/790761
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> which talks about a lot of related topics.  Apache does some
> >>>>> >>>> interesting things.  They use the word "meritocracy" which I am
> >>>>> >>>> rather
> >>>>> >>>> -1 on using (see, for instance,
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>>
> http://www.ashedryden.com/blog/the-ethics-of-unpaid-labor-and-the-oss-community
> >>>>> >>>> ) but I do think there is something to be said for a large part
> of
> >>>>> >>>> their methods of organization.
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> Like you, I think we are overdue.  I would like to point out
> that,
> >>>>> >>>> for
> >>>>> >>>> all intents and purposes, you are *already* the ombudsman for
> the
> >>>>> >>>> yt
> >>>>> >>>> community.  I don't think you're proposing we have a committee
> >>>>> >>>> that
> >>>>> >>>> bosses everyone around, but rather one that enables a larger
> >>>>> >>>> number of
> >>>>> >>>> people to have a say, particularly because yt has become
> embedded
> >>>>> >>>> in
> >>>>> >>>> many of our scientific workflows and it touches a lot of
> research
> >>>>> >>>> activities now.  I like the idea of members.  I like the idea
> of a
> >>>>> >>>> project management committee, but it's not clear to me how that
> >>>>> >>>> would
> >>>>> >>>> work, or which decisions we have made recently that they would
> >>>>> >>>> weigh
> >>>>> >>>> in on.  I also really like the idea of having "code liasons" to
> >>>>> >>>> different data platforms and/or communities, and the idea of
> >>>>> >>>> having
> >>>>> >>>> people who are responsible for many different areas of the code
> >>>>> >>>> and
> >>>>> >>>> codifying that in some way is quite attractive to me.
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> For what it's worth, a few weeks ago I gave a presentation on my
> >>>>> >>>> "vision" for the future of yt (http://goo.gl/JKt6MA).  The
> thing
> >>>>> >>>> is,
> >>>>> >>>> while I gave this presentation, it's just *my* vision -- it is
> not
> >>>>> >>>> necessarily anyone else's vision.  And I think it's time we have
> >>>>> >>>> some
> >>>>> >>>> method of taking into account a diverse set of opinions for what
> >>>>> >>>> we as
> >>>>> >>>> a community can emphasize, how we resolve conflicts, and so on
> and
> >>>>> >>>> so
> >>>>> >>>> forth.
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> Again, thanks for bringing this up.  We need to have this
> >>>>> >>>> conversation.
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> -Matt
> >>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Britton Smith
> >>>>> >>>> <brittonsmith at gmail.com>
> >>>>> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> >>>>> Greeting yt developers,
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> First, I want to congratulate everyone here on the successful
> >>>>> >>>>> release
> >>>>> >>>>> of yt-3.0.  This was a massive effort on the part of so many
> and
> >>>>> >>>>> a
> >>>>> >>>>> true testament to the strength of this team.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> At the time of writing this, there are 78 members of the yt-dev
> >>>>> >>>>> mailing list.  As someone who does most of their work in very
> >>>>> >>>>> small
> >>>>> >>>>> collaborations, this amazes me and make me very proud.  In case
> >>>>> >>>>> you're
> >>>>> >>>>> wondering, the yt-users list has 268 members.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> As a project, yt has a significant amount of infrastructure:
> code
> >>>>> >>>>> review with pull requests, issue tracking, automated testing,
> >>>>> >>>>> emails
> >>>>> >>>>> lists, an IRC channel, enhancement proposals, workshops.  All
> of
> >>>>> >>>>> this
> >>>>> >>>>> is evidence of our legitimacy as a Real Thing.  However, one
> big
> >>>>> >>>>> missing piece is a system of governance.  I don't know exactly
> >>>>> >>>>> what
> >>>>> >>>>> this means, but I have some ideas, which I will share below.
> >>>>> >>>>> What I
> >>>>> >>>>> want to do right now is to start a discussion that will,
> >>>>> >>>>> hopefully,
> >>>>> >>>>> include as many people as possible on this list.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> For me, governance means (roughly) the following:
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> - a set of procedures in writing for how various things are to
> be
> >>>>> >>>>>  done, such as acceptance of pull requests, releases,
> designating
> >>>>> >>>>>  developers as core contributors, etc.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> - a governing body to make decisions and help guide the
> project.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> This accomplishes a number of things, which as a project I
> think
> >>>>> >>>>> we
> >>>>> >>>>> need, such as:
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> - overall stability of the project.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> - providing a system for conflict resolution.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> - maintaining the spirit of yt as a team effort.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> - providing a way for active contributors to get credit for
> their
> >>>>> >>>>>  contribution in the form of official recognition.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> So, these are my initial thoughts, but I really think this
> >>>>> >>>>> deserves a
> >>>>> >>>>> thorough discussion with as many people participating as
> >>>>> >>>>> possible.
> >>>>> >>>>> Please, think about what governance means to you, whether we
> need
> >>>>> >>>>> it,
> >>>>> >>>>> what it should be, and what we might get out of it, and share
> >>>>> >>>>> your
> >>>>> >>>>> thoughts over the next few days.  I look forward to this
> >>>>> >>>>> discussion.
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> Britton
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >>>>> yt-dev mailing list
> >>>>> >>>>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >>>> yt-dev mailing list
> >>>>> >>>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>>> >>>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >>> yt-dev mailing list
> >>>>> >>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>>> >>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> --
> >>>>> >> Michael Zingale
> >>>>> >> Associate Professor
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Dept. of Physics & Astronomy • Stony Brook University • Stony
> Brook,
> >>>>> >> NY
> >>>>> >> 11794-3800
> >>>>> >> phone:  631-632-8225
> >>>>> >> e-mail: Michael.Zingale at stonybrook.edu
> >>>>> >> web: http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/mzingale
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >> yt-dev mailing list
> >>>>> >> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>>> >> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > yt-dev mailing list
> >>>>> > yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>>> > http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> yt-dev mailing list
> >>>>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> yt-dev mailing list
> >>>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> yt-dev mailing list
> >>> yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> >>> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > yt-dev mailing list
> > yt-dev at lists.spacepope.org
> > http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.spacepope.org/listinfo.cgi/yt-dev-spacepope.org
>
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